The DV lottery instructions seem to confuse people about the main requirements for the DV lottery process. The first requirement is about country of eligibility which I will address in another post. The second requirement is education/work experience. So I would like to address some common misconceptions. The rules say this.
Requirement #2: In addition, to meet the education/work experience requirement of the DV program,
you must have either:
a high school education or its equivalent, defined as successful completion of a 12-year course of
elementary and secondary education;
OR
two years of work experience within the past five years in an occupation requiring at least two
years of training or experience to perform. The U.S. Department of Labor’s O*Net Online
database will be used to determine qualifying work experience.
I highlight the either/OR because that is the first misconception – You only need to qualify by one or the other, not both. If you meet the education requirement you do not have to worry about proving work experience.
The second misconception is that each adult (husband and wife) needs to meet the requirement #2. That is normally not the case (the exception being to do with cross charging which I will explain in another post). The principal selectee only needs to meet the requirement.
OK so let’s look at the two options. The first is the simplest and best way to qualify.
Education requirement
The intent of this requirement is to take in immigrants that have achieved an education equivalent to a USA High School education. Note the “USA” part. They are dealing with immigrants from all over the world and needed to establish some “level” in USA terms that can be compared to other countries. So – the level they chose is High school. This is the point at which an American child has graduated high school and is qualified to enter s US University (college).
The term High school is confusing. For instance, in the UK where I was educated, “High school” ended at 16 years old – and that would NOT be sufficient to meet the DV requirement. In UK terms a child would have to attend 2 further years of education beyond 16 years old (receiving “A levels”) to be qualified to enter a University – and that is the level required therefore. Other countries will have other standards – and each embassy is able to set the level required based on their understanding. This has led to some changes over the years that has caught people out. Some embassies publish specific and quite detailed information such as this information for DV2015 from the Kenyan US embassy or the information from the embassy in Sri Lanka. Sri Lanka by the way was a recent example of changing their standards and there are some sad stories about that on the internet.
There is a page which offers a listing for many countries here. However, be very careful with the information as it is not 100% accurate or up to date and some countries will have varied their requirements (again Sri Lanka is an example).
So – hopefully by now you have understood that there is a minimum requirement for your country. The various embassy websites are a good place to get information on the level required.
Does a higher education satisfy the education requirement???
Another common question I get asked is “I have a Bachelors degree/masters or whatever, surely I don’t have to show my High school A levels/High school diploma”. The answer is a bit of a grey area. It makes sense that someone having gained their masters or whatever must have met the requirements BUT there are some exceptions to that logic. For example, it is possible to obtain a Masters degree without having finished 12 years of elementary and secondary education and for that reason some Consular Officers will be “picky” about seeing the HIgh School level proof. There have been many reported cases where COs have insisted on this and I am sure there have been cases of denials based on this.
Vocational education
The rules specifically exclude vocational education as being used to qualify on education grounds. For example, if a selectee were to leave school at 16 and then immediately or later go into a vocational program such as teaching or nursing, the time spent in that vocational training/education could not be used to satisfy the educational requirement. In cases such as this, the selectee may need to consider whether their work experience is sufficient to meet the requirement #2.
Work Experience requirement
Ok let’s say you cannot qualify on education grounds. It is possible to base your eligibility on your work experience – although doing so is harder than education so you would only use this as a fallback method. Why is it harder, well with education you either do or you don’t meet the requirement. You present your proof and as long as you understood the standard correctly you are done. Work experience cases are “judged” by the CO based on the proof you can supply at the interview. They are subjective therefore – it is a matter of how well you can convince the CO that you meet the requirement.
So ok – what is the requirement? The instructions say it is 2 years experience, gained in the previous 5 years, in a job that meets the standard described in the O*Net database. The standard to be met is a job that is classified in job zone 4 or 5 with a SVP (Specific Vocational Preparation) rating of 7.0 or higher. Not all jobs will meet that criteria – it is generally jobs which require a higher level of education, or skills.
How do you check your job? Well you navigate to the O*Net database and enter your approximate job title in the Occupation Search field. You will get a list of similar jobs and you should find the one that is closest to your work by title. For example I typed in “teachers” and from there I chose “Kindergarten Teachers, Except Special Education“. Scroll down the page and find the section “Job Zone” as shown here:-
You can see that Kindergarten teachers is a job at the correct qualifying level. However if you look at a Teachers Assistant – then you can see that is NOT a qualifying job.
Sometimes of course your exact job title will not appear. You can choose a similar job that explains what you do and if necessary you might want to detail your job duties to show they align well with the skills, tasks and so on of the job you wish to use as proof.
How to present the case…
OK – you believe you have found the right job description in the O*Net database. You are soon to attend the interview – how do you prepare.
Well first of all, you have to understand that your credibility will come in to play. The CO has some latitude about how they approve these work experience cases, your task is to give them a good case to be able to approve you.
I would suggest preparing a well organized and professional looking file to include as much as possible of the following:-
- The print out from of the job to which you are aligning your experience.
- Employment letters such as job offers, promotion letters and so on.
- Letters (preferably notarized) from current and former managers, colleagues and so on.
- A description of your day to day duties in the roles covering a minimum of 2 years.
- Details of any vocational training or education that supports you in your job.
- Examples of work product if possible/applicable.
Make this as complete as possible. As I said your credibility counts, so look professional, have a professional demeanor and make sure what you present is well presented, free of typos etc. You generally should not need professional help in preparing this file – and if you think about it the use of a professional could cause the CO to question whether yuou are really at the level you are claiming.
It is worth spending some time on this point, if you fail to convince the CO and have not qualified on education you will be denied and there is no appeal process (if processing outside of the USA).
OK hope that helps. Feel free to comment or ask questions below, I will come back to you as fast as possible.
I recently created a video on this same subject – so feel free to look at that too.
February 2, 2019 at 08:38
Hi Brit, im from Srilanka and im a DV2019 winner and got my visa refused under INA 212(A)(5)(A) “Educationally not qualified”.i must say that i failed one subject out of 3 in GCE Advanced level.but i have studied in supply chain field.i have archieved higher education “Executive Msc in Supply Chain Management” and i have 8 years experience as a Supply chain executive.but CO didnt checked my higher education certificate and only checked my ALs only.he said hes considering my ALs ok including english.he took alot of time and finally he refused my application.im so confused.according to your knowledge whats the mistake i did Mr.brit? and i just wanna know whether i can appeal or request a reconsideration on my application?
Thanks
Hansaka
February 2, 2019 at 15:54
It sounds like he considered all the evidence you gave and made an informed decision. So – there is no appeal process, but even if there were, what would need to be reconsidered?
February 2, 2019 at 16:43
Because he didnt checked my Msc certificate and he compared my designation with supply chain managers.but mine was supply chain executive.which means lower than manager grades.in onetonline site there are few occupations which more closer to my work experience.is i sent them a reconsideration request by email will they accept it??
February 2, 2019 at 17:19
They don’t have to. It is up to them. Your chance is the interview – that is why I tell people to OVER PREPARE.
July 4, 2019 at 06:42
Dear hasanka, can you send your contact no in my email.
[email protected]
August 7, 2019 at 16:18
Good morning sir,
According to @Hansaka situation CO marked his case refused reason as “Educationally not qualified”.
My question is if a person think he was qualified through both education and work experience and entered his workplace under “present employer or school name” and Unfortunately CO not get satisfied with work experience do they consider about his education?
Hope a kind reply from you
Thank You.
August 7, 2019 at 17:08
The COI will ask for proof of education at the interview. If that is not satisfactory, they then would ask about work experience proof.
February 2, 2019 at 16:41
Dear hansaka , can you send your contact number in my email. I’m also DV winner with similar issues. My email [email protected]
July 4, 2019 at 06:36
Dear nuwan, can you send your contact no in my email.
[email protected]
March 21, 2019 at 02:22
This article was great. So I have 15 years experience as a technology journalist and at the time of applying for DV lottery I had 2 years of full time work experience in the last five years, But when i qualified I have just one year full time experience in the last five years and 4 years of freelance experience in the same field. Does freelance experience apply? I also hold a bachelor’s degree in a non related field.
March 21, 2019 at 13:48
If you meet the education requirement, then work experience timelines are irrelevant.
April 14, 2019 at 07:41
Mr brit, im from sri lanka.and im a DV 2019 winner .so I want ask from you,that I didn’t participate for A/L english subject, (absent)out of 4 pass subject in GCE advanced level. But I have 3 years work experience.
I already submitted my documents.
Will that be a broblem for my interview.?
April 14, 2019 at 14:16
If that is a required core subject – yes it will be a problem. Read the article above about work experience.
April 16, 2019 at 04:09
Hi sumudu,machan im from srilanka too.one of my friend had the same issue and got refused.If need to know somthing contact me [email protected]
April 18, 2019 at 06:09
Hi hashan,same issue mean? Was it happened for general english subject? But,English which is not a core subject.
May 8, 2019 at 05:57
Hi, so I have been accepted for further processing and when I applied it said if I had completed university courses which I had. But I have not completed high school, but I am able to finish my last year by doing the courses. I have 2 higher than high school certificates, and a diploma and 2 years at a University? Will this be suffice?
May 8, 2019 at 16:11
So right now you have uncompleted High School and uncompleted University. That is not enough to get approved. Complete HS and only submit the DS260 when you have done so.
July 10, 2019 at 14:15
Dear sumudu , I have also same issue like you , can you send your contact no in my email.
[email protected]
May 9, 2019 at 15:10
Hi I have a vocational degree (2 yr course)an I’m in my last year of getting my high school degree.
Am I able to take part this year or do I have to wait for the year after?
I am unsure as at the time of filling in application I won’t have completed the high school degree until few months later around the time the results are announced in May.
if I can take part which degree on the application form do I chose?
high school no degree, high school with degree or vocational degree( I know I need the high school degree but at time of entry I wouldn’t have it for another several months an if I chose vocational degree will it automatically disqualify?)
May 9, 2019 at 19:40
Are you talkking about entering the lottery?? You cannot enter until October and it is a LONG process – so apply some common sense without overthinking.
May 9, 2019 at 20:15
yes sir, I do not want to waste time etc applying October 2019 if i am not even eligible until October 2020.
1.) I was wonder can I apply while not having degree but will have the degree few months after around time applicants are selected for further process.
2.) If i can apply this October would I choose high school with degree or would I choose vocational degree as highest level of education. As I wouldn’t have my high school degree yet when filling application in October but then around May if won when filling out ds260 form I would show I have a high school degree.
thank you for your time!
May 9, 2019 at 21:16
You don’t want to waste your time, but you are fine with wasting mine???
It’s a lottery. You are unlikely to win, and even if you do it takes around 2 years from entry to receiving the visa.
May 9, 2019 at 21:57
sorry if i worded it wrong i meant it as it is a waste of time entering if i dont even qualify
1.) just wanted to know if i qualify for october dv lottery or do i have to wait till the year after.
2.) if i do qualify for october for the application form will i select vocational degree is my highest level of education. Cause thought they may automatically cancel me out in october if select that option
or can i choose high schhol diploma as will have it in may.
thank you for your time sorry if it is hard to understand me.
May 9, 2019 at 23:25
I understood perfectly. I answered.
May 9, 2019 at 18:04
Good day BritSimon, can you please help me. I did my Grade 12 and went on to obtain a degree, however on my Grade 12 certificate there is 1 subject i did bad in and also Ididn’t do Can my visa be denied because of it? I am going to register to write Maths but by the time my interview takes place the exam date would not yet have come. If i go to the interview with proof of registration to rewrite would that help? Thank you and Regards, B
May 9, 2019 at 19:52
Yes you could be denied if you do not meet the education requirement, although I do not know whether that applies to you or not. Read the instructions and FAQ.
May 10, 2019 at 07:25
Hi Brit, we are from South Africa, my husband was selected. He is self employed since 1995, he buys and sells non ferrous metals. He has a NTC 2 for a fitter and Turner from 1983. Is his education qualification recognized, or how do i check if it is? If we submit letters from clients and suppliers, as well as his accountant will this suffice? He lived in the states as a child and his dad was a naturalized American citizen, will any of this help or are we wasting our time? Thanks
May 10, 2019 at 21:26
The vocational training (NTC2) won’t help, neither will his childhood.
If he has High school education then he could use that, but otherwise it will be an evaluation of his work experience, and buying and selling metals would rarely count. However, the article above explains how to decide that.
May 14, 2019 at 18:38
Hi Brit,
You have a wonderful blog going on,
I would like yo ask you a very simple question that is ruining my sleep everyday.
In sri lanka the minimum requirement is a high school diploma or a bachelors degree.
However i have failed one subject in my high schopl diploma but i have a bachelors degree (UK)
My doubt is , i have got my bachelorsdegree just after the entry (4 months after ) but before i was been selected for further processing. Will it be a problem to prove my education requirement to the CO? Has cases been rejected previously due to these type of scenarios ?
Kidn regards,
Sofi
May 14, 2019 at 19:09
There is some risk, technically speaking, but it is not a big risk.
May 14, 2019 at 19:31
Thanks for your response Brit, would it be worthwhile giving ita try ?
Do i have to specifically mention anything to the CO regarding this ?
As above i have seen comments who hold masters have been rejected without even askingh about their qualification . Is it because it was masters and not bachelors ?
May 14, 2019 at 19:58
No need to mention it. The risk is to do with the need to fulfill HS requirements, even if you then exceed that with a Bachelors or Masters. Some COs are picky about that, some less so.
May 16, 2019 at 07:52
Mr brit, I’m from Sri Lanka . I’m a DV 2020 winner .so I want ask from you,that I failed A/L english subject, out of 4 pass subject in GCE advanced level
Will that be a problem for my interview.?
May 16, 2019 at 16:25
Possibly, yes. Each embassy has different requirements based on local education standards. I don’t track all embassy required levels (and they can change). Check the SL Us embassy website, or check with them directly.
May 16, 2019 at 08:40
Hi Brit,
I have a question regarding educational qualification,
when I entered the DV 2020 program I filled my educational qualification as “high school no degree” I t thought that is the minimum requirement of the educational qualification , but I had B Sc in Defense Studies .
Now I’m selected for DV 2020 , when I fill the D 260 , what should I fill as “Highest Level of Education Completed”?
please answer,,,
than you
May 16, 2019 at 16:30
Your actual Highest Level of Education **Completed**. You will also give education history.
It’s that simple.
May 16, 2019 at 19:50
Hello BritSimon,
I am a 2020 DV winner from syria. I want to be qualified through my education qualifications. I Have a bachelor degree and general secondary education certification, but I don’t know what to fill in the “present” tab where it mentions “primary occupation”.
In this case, should I leave “present” tab blank since I have education proof and fill my education qualifications in the “previous” tab? or I have to fill my current job experience in the “present” tab and my previous education qualifications in the “previous”?
thank you so much for your time.
May 17, 2019 at 00:57
The present tab is your occupation today. Are you a student, do you work? Whatever you *do* is your present occupation.
May 18, 2019 at 23:39
Okay, so in the previous tab when I fill my previous studies, will I be qualified by my education certificates not my work experience?
thank you for responding.
May 18, 2019 at 23:41
No, not necessarily. You fill in the form. How you qualify is another matter.
May 19, 2019 at 11:21
Dear BritSimon, Is it religion marriage valid because my marriage was done by our religion priniciple. I have the certificate from the church
May 19, 2019 at 15:44
It depends on the marriage laws in your country. If the marriage is legal, then it is fine.
May 22, 2019 at 22:44
Hello Brit,
The work experience requirement states that one must have 2 years of full time work experience in the last 5 years. Do you know if they look at the last 5 years from the date of the initial lottery application, the last 5 years from the date when the winners were announced, or the last 5 years from the date of the visa interview?
May 22, 2019 at 23:58
Backwards from the interview.
May 23, 2019 at 00:37
Thank you for your help! Do you have a link to a document on the DV government site that provides this information?
May 23, 2019 at 01:38
It’s law. You don’t need such a link.
May 26, 2019 at 17:01
Hi Brit Simon ,
i have been selected for DV Lottery 2020, i have questions would you please tell me , i am graduate from high school 12 years and have a high school Certificate , but no work expeiernce , i am qualify for dv lottery or not.
1- while i was applying i selected high school no degree, i thought degree means someone had college or university graduated, leter i saw someone who still going to High School (12 years education) and haven’t graduated or haven’t received the certificate of completion , but i have 12 years Certificate and is it effect to my case.
2-do i need affidavit of support for dv lottery.
would you please tell me when should i appy for visa or when should i fill ds-260 form, and required document for dv lottery interview
Thank you
May 26, 2019 at 18:08
1. The article above answers your question.
2. Probably, read the FAQ.
Read the FAQ please.
May 26, 2019 at 19:18
thank you so much for replaying, i want to hear from you to be sure and i have only high school Certificate 12 years
May 27, 2019 at 04:46
Hello Brit. Ever since winning the 2020 dv lottery I’m on your site all day and all night. Thanks for all the help. I don’t qualify under education so I’m going with the work experience. I am a the owner of a business (beauty salon and beauty supply shop) I run the daily operations of that business and want to apply as a general manager.
How can I present my case to prove I have the experience? Also if anyone else has information on this, can you comment and give advice please?
Is there any similar cases on here that you know about? Maybe I can read up on their case/interview.
May 27, 2019 at 05:56
Frankly you will have a hard time proving that work experience meets the requirements. You do not need 2 years of training or education to do that role, and I doubt it will be accepted. But if you are determined to try, read my work experience info (FAQ).
June 20, 2019 at 17:40
Hello Brit,
I`m a DV2020 winner from Asian Region. I have few things to clarify;
1) My Case number is 26xxx . Will I still be called for an interview as my number is larger?
2) I`m claiming my entry through Work experience as I failed one subject in my secondary level exam.
When filling DS260 how can I show that I`m claiming through my work experience, as in the application it asked for my education as well. Do I still need to take the education certificate for the interview?
3) I have 2 years of work experience within last 5 years with a gap in-between.
But I found the exact job title on the “o-net database”, which means in one particular position I was working for 2 years & had a gap for 1 year and 3months.
Do they count 2 years backwords from now Or Total of 2 years within any time in the last 5 years ?
In my case;
Previous Job title (July 2014 – Mar 2017) – Qualify for the process (2 years and 8months)
Previous Job title (Sep 2017- Sep2018) – I was in a different job title. (Doesn’t qualify for the entry)
My current job (from Apr 2019 – Till Now) – Qualify for the Process (2months)
Do I need to list entire work history including non qualifying job I did in-between within last 5 years?
My work experience is in Finance sector. When filling DS260 for the question ” Occupation” should I select ‘Business” Or can I select ”Others” and specify the exact job title with the code as given in the O*net site.?
June 20, 2019 at 19:16
1. It is too soon to know.
2. You would be wise to WAIT before you submit your DS260. But when you submit it – list all your education and work history – just answer the questions.
3. Total 2 years within the previous 5 years at the interview date. So – you will have been at your current job for over a year by the time of the interview (if you get one).
As for other questions – use your judgement.
https://britsimonsays.com/dv2020-dont-submit-ds260-until-you-read-this/
June 20, 2019 at 19:39
Hi Brit ,
Thanks for your response.
So You mean not to submit DS 260 immediately? Can you explain why should I delay it ?
To Answer the question “Mailing Address” on the DS260 , Is your Mailing Address the same as your Present Address? what can I say here?
Also I applied for visit visa to USA in 2010 . I was refused and I was informed verbally. I don’t have any proof. will that be a concern for my application?
Thank you
June 20, 2019 at 20:24
I gave you a link above that explains why you should delay.
Mailing address is often the same.
It depends why you were refused. If the previous refusal was for suspicion that you would overstay, that is not a problem for the DV case.
June 23, 2019 at 12:35
Hi Brit,
When I applied for DV lottery last year I entered my wife`s address. But we are at a different address now.
1. Will that be an issue ?
2. My wife is still using her earlier address as her permanent address. All her Police reports are under that address. I`m in a different address . Again will that be a concern?
June 23, 2019 at 18:30
1. No
2. Something sounds “odd” about all that, so whilst it is technically not a problem, I suspect there is more to this than you are telling me – and the CO may also suspect there is something not right.
May 27, 2019 at 16:24
Hello Brit,
what is it means would you please tell me 12-year High School Education in my country or in USA.
((High School Education: A high school education means successful completion of a formal course of elementary and secondary education comparable to completion of a 12-year course in the United States.))
Thank you
May 27, 2019 at 16:34
The text is clear. So what is your question?
May 27, 2019 at 17:03
My question is I have graduated high school in my country is it qualify for Dv lottery , because I was confused about that question
Thank you so much
May 27, 2019 at 21:14
I don’t know. Check requirements for your embassy.
May 29, 2019 at 01:42
Hi Brit !!
I tick in undergraduate degree in place of high school diploma during entrance but I was running undergraduate degree . I was little confusion while filling entry .is this a problem in inrerview ? all the information is Right !! thanks in advance
May 29, 2019 at 02:47
No problem that I can see.
May 30, 2019 at 07:46
Dear Mr. Birt,
I am from Iraq. your article is really helpful. I have been selected for further processing in the Diversity Immigrant Visa Program for 2020. I have graduated high school and have bachelor degree in Geography. Additionally, I have four years experience of teaching in the same field. Please do I need to prove all these documents during interview or just bachelor degree is enough?
May 30, 2019 at 21:14
Take everything to the interview.
June 7, 2019 at 05:54
Dear Mr. BritSimon
I have three questions please.
1- Concerning the (Education) / if i have HS, B.sc and M.sc (civil & structural Engineer) Is it better to add all of them or just HS ?
2- Concerning the (Primary Occupation)Present Employer & previously employed / I am an employee now and I was previously employed in another job, do I mention all of them ?
If I do not mention any of them It is considered a lie and would refuse to Visa ?
3- Concerning the (In which occupation do you intend to work in the U.S.) / Is it better to write (Engineering) or any other work that does not require experience or education?
regards
ameer mahi
iraq
June 7, 2019 at 14:38
1. All (including HS).
2. Yes because that is what the form asks!
3. Doesn’t matter what you write.
June 8, 2019 at 07:10
Hello Mr.Brit
I’m winner of dv2019.
There is a question in DS260, section Work/Education/Training Information: “Have you attended any educational institutions at a secondary level or above?” I answered NO, because I thought it means University Degree Education. Of course I graduated 12-years secondary school and I have certificate. I have an appointment in July 23rd. I asked Alma Ata embassy to unlock my DS260. They unlocked and I added information about HS education.
Will be there any problems in interview?
Also we do not enter HS information for may husband but added information about his University degree and diploma.
Do I need to unlock DS260 for my husband and add information about HS education?
Thanks.
June 8, 2019 at 13:42
You fixed yours, so hopefully they will be fine with that. Take your HS proof to the interview. No need to do anything on your husbands form (as he is the derivative).
June 14, 2019 at 19:55
Hi Simon, can I get more clarification on something I don’t understand – going by what you said in YOUR main post above before people were invited to post questions under this specific topic
You gave a specific example of the UK GCSE and A’ Levels as being equivalent for the DV program requirement but that is 14 years equivalent study as explained below
But they are looking for 12 years of schooling up to High School
In the UK, there is :-
– Primary School which is up to year 6 but is 7 years as it includes Reception before year 1
– Secondary which is a further 7 years up to year 13 (i.e. year 7 to 13 – so 7 years) although A’ Levels is not compulsory
That’s a total of 14 years so you have exceeded the 12 years required
So without A ‘level = 12 years ending in High School and technically High School / Secondary education – isn’t that acceptable?
I stopped at GCSE and did 1 year Vocational College – is that ok? That is technically 13 years of education by British standard –
AND BRITISH STANDARDS ARE VERY HIGH, arguably better & higher than American, surely?
June 14, 2019 at 21:03
No – as I point out above, the requirement is not to do with the number of years, it is the level of education achieved. A US High school graduate is able to enter “college” to begin a Bachelors degree program. That is the level they want – the level at which you can be accepted for college (university) admission. In the UK, that level is A level – meaning a typical UK child would be 18 when they are ready for Uni, the same age that an American child is ready for college.
Additionally, the rules state that vocational education is specifically excluded (as I mentioned above), so your 1 year of educational education would not help you meet the level required, even though you had 13 years of education. Remember that UK education for very young children is almost considered government funded “childcare”, not a case of UK kids being far in advance of USA kids.
So – if you are a principal selectee, you need to consider whether you can meet the requirements via work experience, because it sounds like you will not pass on education.
June 15, 2019 at 18:27
Hi I had the same question(s) so glad I came across this particular query, as it has been answered
I understand the point you have made completely.
However…Based on your years doing this blog, have you come across anyone that has made it through with old style UK/ British O’levels or new style British GCSE at any location worldwide?
Has a CO granted the applicant successfully based on past experience / cases that you have come across
The CO may have interpreted it as 12 years equivalent and in some countries like,for example, Zambia O’levels (a former British system / colony) is last point of high school before entry to University
Copied and pasted from web >>> “The Zambian education system has a 7-5-4 structure, namely 7 years at primary school, 2 and 3 years at junior and higher secondary school respectively, and 4 years at university for undergraduate degrees.”
But IMPORTANTLY the end of High School is GCSE equivalent in some countries and former British colonies……… but if that applicant is now, for example, in the UK (from Zambia) – would they be rejected, for example?
Only asking if you know if you’ve come across this GCSE or old style O’levels being accepted, based on cases you have seen / know about based on the examples I have given.
Another weird anomaly is why should a Zambian with O’levels/ GCSE be accepted in Zambia, yet someone with GCSE in UK be rejected – because technically they are at the same level? In Zambia they can go to University and that is the end of High School, but in UK they would be under?
Do you see my point?
June 15, 2019 at 18:45
Yes I see your point, and yes there is a difference in how the standard is determined in each country. As Rabecca points out, the UK system is good, standards are high, and entry into University is not something everyone can achieve. In other countries there may be a less matured education system, and to open up education for all, there may be a lower bar set to get people to attain their degrees. Those degrees might not be so highly regarded as those earned in the UK system, but still, it might be “enough” to meet standards for the immigration standard we are discussing. In some countries, knowing the local system, knowing what is reasonable in that locality, and trying to meet the spirit of the rule without making the process impossibly onerous, the local embassies have set a lower bar – even with qualifications named the same.
July 2, 2019 at 15:19
I have a scenario for myself, and forgive me if you feel it has been covered. Myself and my partner are going to apply for the lottery this year (or next) as he was born in Fiji and I was born in the UK. He attended all years of Scottish primary and secondary education (P1 – P2 & S1- S6), but may not necessarily have gained the grades/UCAS points to get into University, but did pass his studies in these years. He has since gone on to higher education and is currently doing his accounting degree. Would he be effected by this rule, because he went the high school > college > university route (as is common) or should he be OK with this? I also did this route but I have been in a skilled job for the past 6 years so it wouldn’t matter on my application. (Side note we plan to get married).
July 2, 2019 at 17:51
This is like planning to buy a lotto ticket and asking an accountant for tax strategies for the win.
Marry. Enter. If selected, think about how to qualify.
June 15, 2019 at 19:13
It cant be fair that a Zambian with GCSE goes through in Zambia as that is their 12 years – the examining board is British based / standard
Yet a Briton with GCSE (could be a Zambian in Britain for example now with colonial connection) doesnt go through
BOTH ARE THE SAME STANDARD / LEVEL?
It doesn’t compute as fair
Do you know of any past cases, by way of experience that have gone through? Again, just asking based on my analysis as explained
In that case I should have stayed in Zambia ………..but I am a Briton now (and came to Britain because of the colonial / commonwealth connection)
June 15, 2019 at 20:06
Life isn’t fair sometimes. I don’t track standards in every embassy so I cannot tell you that your assumption about Zambia is correct. But the UK is more clear to me.
June 15, 2019 at 19:17
I wish I could change my location or my embassy, but as you advise, it has to be based on where you live, you can’t “decide” where you want to be interviewed
I am a Briton now, but if I stayed in Zambia I would have been admitted / qualified – seems ridiculous
Sorry not angry with you ofcourse, just my situation which seems unfair
June 15, 2019 at 19:35
you have a point Mr Mulenga
i feel for you
that’s unfair and double standards by the Americans, isn’t it?
im not from the British commonwealth region but middle east but get the point being made
i was always told British system is best but how can there be double standard here?
June 15, 2019 at 20:08
The flexibility is designed to let some that would otherwise NOT make it able to emigrate. But you see that accommodation as unfair – there will always be someone unhappy I suppose…
It’s their game, their rules.
June 15, 2019 at 20:14
i know
and i understand your view
but that poor guy loses out
and he hasn’t done anything wrong either
June 16, 2019 at 11:51
My spouse entered 2020 and lost – he is from a qualifying country
I entered 2020 in my own right (naming him, as you have to of course) and l won – I am also from a different qualifying country in my own right
He can easily meet the education and/ or work requirements and significantly more educated than me
I may struggle to meet this….not so sure to be honest as have to still establish “equivalency”
Can I use my spouse’s “strength” in this respect as he will be accompanying me REGARDLESS SO ONE OF US WILL HAVE AN EXCELLENT JOB – so technically we meet the requirement
He wasn’t the winner, but I was, but he has much more education than me
June 16, 2019 at 15:42
His education is irrelevant. Either you meet the requirements or none of you can be approved.
June 16, 2019 at 16:36
Hi Simon, for the question on diplomas I add only my graduation diploma without adding the HSD in the list I misunderstood the question (like an idiot) thinking that I had to put only the highest degree but the problem that when I understand (your blog) it’s too late (as usual) to unlock my DS I already received the ready for scheduling email probably for september (last chance) my question:
And given that I have all the evidence with my HSD (original version) if i ran the risk of being refused for that ? and should I ask for correction before the interview at the embassy? (I’m really worried about losing everything because of that)
Thank you in advance for your answer.
2019AF46XXX
June 16, 2019 at 18:40
The risk, if any, is small. Just make sure you take everything to the interview.
June 16, 2019 at 19:56
Thank you for your help and understanding.
June 17, 2019 at 17:34
My education has reached + 2 requirement, but I have filled the ds260 so that I have worked on montessori a year work work but does it give the consulater officer’s work experience important?
June 17, 2019 at 19:23
Not sure what you are asking here. If you meet the education level required you do not need to prove work experience as well.
June 18, 2019 at 23:20
Hi Simon, couple of questions:
– I’m from South America and I wonder if all the answers have to be written in english?
– The part it says Highest Level of Education Completed, I finished high school and also got an University Degree but here in my country it’s different than the US, so I don’t know which option to choose?
– What does it means Course of Study? if I’m filling high school information what should I write here? and these answers have to be translated to english?
– The part Degree, Diploma, Certificate Received, do I have to choose one or describe one?
– The date of attendance has to be exact? I don’t have the exact day for this.
thanks for your help in advance
June 18, 2019 at 23:27
1. Yes (apart from addresses or names of Organizations)
2. Just pick something that sounds OK.
3. Use your own judgement.
4. Use your own judgement.
5. No – best estimate os OK.
June 19, 2019 at 00:08
thanks for your reply,
let’s say my university degree in my country is “Ingeniero Comercial” (in spanish) I have to translate that or find something equal in the US when filling case of study?
I attended elementary, middle and high school at the same institution, but when filling about my high school diploma I should include the dates since I started elementary school?
June 19, 2019 at 02:07
Write “commercial engineer”. Just remember – the form will be read by Americans, so use your judgement to make it easier for them.
When filling education history you would include that.
The questions are not trick questions.
June 19, 2019 at 20:55
Hi Bruce,
In earlier years the education requirement stated:
“The principal diversity visa applicant must have a high school education, or its equivalent.
Education: Submit to the U.S. Embassy or Consulate at your interview, a certificate of completion equivalent to a U.S. diploma, school transcripts, or other evidence issued by the person or organization responsible for maintaining records, which specifies the completed course of study. The diversity visa selectee must have completed a 12-year course of elementary and secondary education in the U.S. or a comparable course of study in another country, sufficient in itself to qualify a student to apply for college admission.”
whereas now it states:
“U.S. immigration law and regulations require that every DV entrant must have at least a high school education or its equivalent or have two years of work experience within the past five years in an occupation that requires at least two years of training or experience”
The keyword in the latter text is “at least” which translates minimum requirement. Could this mean if that someone has a bachelor’s, masters or even a PhD it should be enough to satisfy the minimum education requirement? Or is having 3 A levels ultimately necessary?
My case:
1. 5 IGCSE + University Foundation Certificate
2. BEng Aerospace Technology (1st Class Hons) – Coventry
3. Professional Registration as a chartered engineer with the Royal Aeronautical Society
4. 5 years of work experience and still working (Although as I read proving work experience is tedious and risky)
June 19, 2019 at 22:24
The article above answers this. Whilst the wording was changed a while back, some COs are still picky and want to see “high school” requirement being met.
June 21, 2019 at 17:59
Dear Brit.
1, How many subjects do you need to pass inorder to be qualify using your educational reqiurement?
2, is it mandatory to pass ‘maths and English’ /English or maths inorder to qualify?
2019AF00046*20
June 21, 2019 at 18:13
There are around 200 countries in the world, each with different education systems. There are nearly as many US embassies, each one being responsible for setting their own requirements for the educational results needed.
I dont track them all, so cant answer, even if you had given me the country.
June 21, 2019 at 21:11
Ok dear understood but Sierra Leone to be specific.
June 23, 2019 at 19:22
Hi Brit
Most of the time my wife is residing in her earlier address due to work. So on all her documentation is still has the earlier address. I live in a different address and I`m using this address as my current address.
According my understanding, Husband and wife can live in two different address or sometimes two different countries due to various reasons. Example work / children’s education ect.
I can explain to the CO at the interview. Just want to make sure my application will not be effected if this misunderstood .
Or we can change the address in all her documents and get a fresh police report . We are in the process of completing the DS 260. Is there a dead line to submit documents for DV2020 ?
June 23, 2019 at 20:18
OK – well if you are able to give a logical explanation that should be OK.
No deadline.
July 6, 2019 at 14:47
if a DV principal applicant graduated from 12grade with out West Africa examination council certificate will that person be diqualafy for interview
July 6, 2019 at 14:56
Possibly. I am not an expert on WAEC standards, or specific embassy requirements. But I assume that without a WAEC you are essentially saying you did not pass the exams…
July 8, 2019 at 01:36
I pass but my results is under investigation because ever one pass the test, so results are upheld
July 6, 2019 at 16:51
Hi,
My interview is on august 2019, I’m applying from work experiences. My current designation is Associate Product Design Lead (UX). But in the oNet site there’s no designation like that. I found two similar job descriptions though. Graphic designer and Human factors engineers and ergonomists. Graphic designer is under job zone 4 and SVP 7 to < 8. Human factors engineers and ergonomists is under job zone 5 and SVP 8 and above. In the job descriptions under “Education” for Graphic designer the required education level is bachelor’s degree which I have. But for the Human factors engineers and ergonomists the required education level is master’s degree which I don’t have. But my duties and skills are more similar to Human factors engineers and ergonomists.
So my questions are,
1. Do they consider about this education section as well or they consider only the skills and activities?
2. Which job role is the better one to go with a) Graphic designer b) Human factors engineers and ergonomists?
3. Also in the job description of Human factors engineers and ergonomists under “Job openings on the web”, if I select the state and check jobs, then there I can find job titles that are similar to mine (like UX designer, UI designer, Product designer etc.). So If I go with this title can I show those jobs to prove that I’m doing something related to this?
Thanks a lot 🙂
July 6, 2019 at 17:37
1. Qualifying by Education is easier. Work experience is “subjective”.
2. The most accurate one.
3. Do whatever you think gives you the best chance.
July 6, 2019 at 17:45
Hi thanks for the comment Brit.
I mean the education section under oNet job descriptions. Are they consider about it?
July 6, 2019 at 21:53
No.
July 7, 2019 at 10:57
Thanks, one last thing, Do they compare the job titles and descriptions on DS260 with the employment letters in the interview process?
July 7, 2019 at 14:44
Probably.
July 10, 2019 at 11:34
Dear Brit,
Are the following passes ok for qualification which i got in 1994?
GRADES Subject Remarks
B3…. Statistics Good
C5………… Economics Credit
C5………….English Credit
C6…………. Biology Credit
C6………….Accounting Credit
D7………….Mathematics Pass
1, i am a little bit worry for the D7 grade in mathematics but with the remarks (pass) against it i don’t know if i will be qualified by education.
2, i was admitted to the university because of the maths and statistics put together and divided by 2. i have a degree in accounting and currently working as a treasurer in a company.
will i be able to qualify using the education or the work /will both be taken into consideration?
July 10, 2019 at 21:35
I don’t know the requirements for your embassy, but you should take evidence of your employment as that could meet the requirement anyway.
August 15, 2019 at 14:20
dear Brit,
is this link for educational requirement authentic for Sierra Leone?
https://www.dvlotteryhelp.com/DV-Lottery-information-for-the-Sierra-Leone-people.php
August 15, 2019 at 17:23
It is not an official page.
July 10, 2019 at 22:34
Hi brit,
I qualify under work experience.
I have a employment letter an id card that writes my job name…together with certificate…do you think this would be enough evidence to submit to the embassy..or would I need more evidence…
July 11, 2019 at 17:27
Need your help!!
Hi, I loved how you explained things. I have an interesting question for you and need your help to clarify the whole. I used to work for Starbucks started in 2012 as Barista and through the years I got Assistant Manager around 2015 and then Store Manager until 2017. Then in 2017 I got in a different business as Commercial Manager but I have been there from September 2017 to May 2019 and now I a Supplier Manager with a Assistant Vice President role, but in this last role I just started in May 2019. Anyway I consider myself capable enough to say that those jobs requires enough skillset… do they will agree? mmm
Anyway, my question for you is: can I put my experience even if different sector all under the same General and Ops Manager? even if moved with different job title.. Commercial Manager, is not specifically on the list, but based on what I was doing is a close match.
please to help 🙁 I want to go to us
July 11, 2019 at 21:05
Are you a selectee in the lottery?
July 11, 2019 at 23:34
Hi Mr Britmon, I am writing to you for I am intent to apply this years for a DV lottery. I have 5 years working experience in the Bank as a Relationship officer. My question is to know which work position at Onet will make me qualify for a DV. I own a 12 years High school Diploma too.
July 12, 2019 at 05:56
So read the article above!
July 15, 2019 at 06:14
Hi brit,
I am an ohs officer…my job was not listed on the o.net online so the closest search returned a ohs technicians but my job duties are of a ohs specialist…what can I do about …..can I get a verification letter from the company of my job duties..
Thank you
July 15, 2019 at 16:57
Yes – you build the evidence of what you do with as much preparation as you can.
July 15, 2019 at 20:08
Hi brit,
I dnt have a bachelor degree in the ohs ..but my duties are the same as a specialist…..can I still continue with this.
Thank you
July 16, 2019 at 01:08
You have to decide. You might want to consider that no one outside of your industry/field knows what OHS is…
July 24, 2019 at 16:57
Hi Brit,
I have a 3 year’s Bachelor’s Degree from a Private College and an International Diploma in Travel and Tourism which is 1 year’s of study. I have been working with the Diploma i earned later on.
My concern is in my country Ethiopia there has been some cases of Visa Denial based on unclear reason stating Private College Education doesn’t Qualify.
I need your help whether i should Qualify by Highschool Diploma, even though i entered University Degree as Education Qualification on my DV Application.
Thank You!
July 24, 2019 at 17:00
I don’t know the exact requirements by embassy. But show ALL the education proof you have including High school.
July 26, 2019 at 16:53
Hi
I have a high school diploma and university degree (MD)and beside that i have 2 years of work experince at a hospital as doctor as well ,my question is ,in my interview
1.which one of education or experience will be considered ?
2. Should i Take a job qualification letter with me to interview or No my education is enough
Tanx
July 27, 2019 at 03:57
1. Education normally.
2. Education should be enough.
August 6, 2019 at 14:09
Hey brits am from Ethiopia, my name is muluken,I have one question please, the highest education level is vocational education and i have six years experience at university position at senior techinical assistant and i started degree program before years, i have some university courses can i get visa by some university courses?
August 6, 2019 at 17:52
It depends on what high school results you have and COMPLETED education after that…
August 6, 2019 at 20:40
I haven’t grade 12 doccument,fineshed grade 10 and attended agricultural vocational training college three consecutive years when i fineshed education started work,i have 6 years work experience at university assisting students and i attended to learn Bsc degree before 2 years ago so one year left to finish can i get visa card?
August 6, 2019 at 21:58
You will be at risk. Vocational education does NOT meet the requirements – so you may have to rely on your work experience. Ultimately – it will be up to the assessment of the CO.
August 7, 2019 at 14:46
Hi BritSimon,
I’m Prabath from Sri Lanka. I’ve been randomly selected for further processing in the Diversity Immigrant Visa Program for the fiscal year 2020. I’ve read the instructions regarding the program from here.
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/immigrate/diversity-visa-program-entry/diversity-visa-if-you-are-selected/diversity-visa-confirm-your-qualifications.html
According to the instructions, i should not continue with DV application if i do not meet the qualifying education or work experience requirements explained there.
I’ve passed all 03 core subjects in Advanced Level and qualified for apply University admission.
**However, i’ve failed General English but it isn’t a core subject (which is not affect to qualify for University admission)
According to this situation, am i meeting the Education qualification of the DV program?
Pls help
Thanx in advance.
Regards,
Prabath
August 7, 2019 at 14:50
http://www.sundaytimes.lk/140921/plus/who-is-eligible-for-the-diversity-visa-lottery-program-118624.html
August 7, 2019 at 14:56
ThanX again
August 7, 2019 at 15:01
Hello prabath, Im also 2019DV winner and i had same issue. What is your age and case no range?
August 7, 2019 at 15:08
Raj,
I’m a 2020 one. Case no AS23xxx.
Same issue means, what?
August 7, 2019 at 15:09
Brit,
This was published on 2014. Will it still applicable for 2020?
August 7, 2019 at 15:23
Yes prabath. You are good with A/L’s. overprepare yourself with all the documents before the interview.
August 7, 2019 at 16:57
Yes
August 7, 2019 at 17:05
Prabath , I have AL three passes for core subjects but general english failed. That is not matter for diversity visa. Do not confused prabath. I have been issued my visa.
August 11, 2019 at 05:56
Hi Brit/Raj, i am a DV2020 winner, do i have to get US citizen as a sponsor if i can show enough funds for myself ?
August 11, 2019 at 14:23
Showing your own savings is possible, but subjective (because “enough” is not defined).
August 7, 2019 at 15:33
Dear brit,
So my country Indonesia has its own national exams and u would get a high school diploma if u pass the exam. However, I attended a private international school that uses the cambridge A level curriculum. So i actually have an A level certificate and not the national high school diploma issued by the government. Will the CO in the embassy recognize my A level certificate as meeting the requirement? Since it is actually more internationally known but applicants in my country always use the national diploma issued by the government.
August 7, 2019 at 17:05
I cannot guess whether an individual CO will know about that or not. Take whatever info you can to the interview to desribe the system of education you attended.
August 7, 2019 at 17:45
Can u elaborate further on what u meant by describing the cambridge A level system?
August 8, 2019 at 00:37
provide whatever details you can about that system.
August 8, 2019 at 08:04
I think there are two details i can provide, please advise whether it is correct.
I can show the CO that American universities accept A levels as college courses that can be counted towards the credits (proving that i can enter into university)
I can also show the official cambridge website where it shows that A levels is normally taken at Year 12 of high school (proving that i have 12 years of education) along with my year 9-12 transcripts.
August 8, 2019 at 20:17
Use your own judgement.
August 25, 2019 at 01:51
Hi brit ,
Im winner of dv lottery 2020 , my question is that i passed high school education and also have bachelor degree . My grades are bad in high school but i didn’t fail any subject but grades are bad and i have good cgpa in my bachelors degree . Do u think they can refuse me based on my high school only even though i have good grades in highest education which is bachelor degree ? . Should i only show them bachelor degree ?
August 25, 2019 at 04:34
I don’t know the embassy or their requirements
August 25, 2019 at 13:26
The embassy is Saudi Arabia , Riyadh
How can i find their requirements is there is any way to find out if i can be rejected because of high school grades
August 25, 2019 at 18:00
If your education was good enough to be allowed to study for a bachelors, you are probably OK.However, it is ultimately up to the CO.
September 1, 2019 at 19:01
Hi Simon, I have a question in regards to your comments on Work Experience:
You suggest putting a file together with the following information:
1.The print out from of the job to which you are aligning your experience.
2.Employment letters such as job offers, promotion letters and so on. – Job Contract?
3.Letters (preferably notarized) from current and former managers, colleagues and so on. – what do you suggest these letters state? Some of these managers have left the company – can a letter in their private capacity be good enough?
4.A description of your day to day duties in the roles covering a minimum of 2 years. – Not all employment contracts spell out the duties – can I type that up myself?
Thank you
September 2, 2019 at 17:32
You only need a work experience set of documents if you are not qualified on education. If you are preparing a work experience case you have to use some judgement about what documents you can show to demonstrate the nature & level of work you have been doing and for how long.
January 27, 2020 at 07:02
Am from Ghana and I had f9 on my high school certificate can this lead to visa refusal?
January 27, 2020 at 18:31
Possibly – I don’t track the requirements for all the countries around the world – so check with other Ghanaians.
Try this
https://forums.immigration.com/threads/dv-2020-ghana-selectees.340765/
September 1, 2019 at 21:20
Hi there, is self employment considered « Work Experience ».? I misplaced my High school certificate but i have Three (3) Master degrees and a Juris Doctor. Would these be acceptable in lieue of the 12 years of schooling.
Appreciate you assistance.
September 2, 2019 at 17:34
That would probably be acceptable.
September 1, 2019 at 21:36
Do they require proof of High School certificate/ work experience in the DV application or can you supply them later?
Also, is there a maximum age for the lottery? Can someone aged 55 apply?
September 2, 2019 at 17:35
Please number questions.
1. You supply proof at the interview.
2. No maximum age.
September 10, 2019 at 10:59
If a consular as you to submit your high school certificate to the dhl with your passort but where you have F9 on your high scool certificate can that lead to your visa refuser
September 10, 2019 at 20:05
The requirements for education vary by embassy and I don’t track them all.
September 10, 2019 at 17:55
Dear simon
Someone need a consultation
He applied the Dv entry 10/2018 , got selected and he didn’t finsh high grade school yet.
He is expected to finish his study and get the certificate on 7/2020
CN is expected to be interviewed aroud 8/2020
So is he eligible or applying without finishing his study is a fraud ?
September 10, 2019 at 21:41
No. He simply needs to prove that he meets the requirement by the day of the interview.
February 24, 2020 at 22:58
Dear Simon,
Does Self employment meet the requirements of the two-year work experience? Im a pro bono immigration consultant for asylum seekers and was working for myself without charging clients, therefore i was not having an income.,Do I meet the two-year work experience if i was not remunerated?
P.S. I didn’t know how to start a new thread so I replied to this post. Hopefully, you will see it! Anyone knows how to post a new message?
February 24, 2020 at 23:43
Unless you are independently wealthy, you had some way of paying the bills while you were doing the pro bono work. So – that other job is what you did for a living. The pro bono work was just a hobby – and therefore cannot be used for the DV qualification.