As the new registration period will shortly be open I wanted to address something that has potential to catch people out during the eDV entry. It is about chargeability.
Eligibility to participate in the DV lottery is based on country of birth. That does not mean your country of citizenship. It means where you were born. I have explained this more detail in a previous post here. For anyone about to enter they must understand this point. Entering the wrong country can get you disqualified.
So – you enter country of birth as your country of chargeability EXCEPT in the following examples.
- If you were born in an ineligible country but your spouse was born in an eligible country, you can charge to your spouse’s country of birth.
- If your parents were temporarily in your country of birth and neither of them was born there themselves, you may be able to charge to one of their birth countries.
Mistakes made about that can be serious. Typically a mistake in country of chargeability within one region could be overlooked at the interview BUT a mistake that crosses a region would cause disqualification. So choosing France, when really you were supposed to charge to Germany would be OK, but choosing France when you should have charged to South Africa would NOT be OK)
Now – in the last couple of weeks (September 11, 2015), USCIS have clarified a third type of exception. I call this “elective cross charging” – some may have heard me talking about this before since there was a lawyer who has suggested this method BUT the rulebook did not support his suggestion. Elective cross charging is where both you and your spouse were born in eligible countries but to improve your chances you choose to both charge to the country with the best odds of winning. So – if your spouse was born in Australia and you were born in South Africa, you CAN choose Australia for BOTH of your entries. Why would you do that? Well OC region selectees are around 10 times more likely to be picked in the lottery, so you would be improving your chances massively.
Now- there are a couple of downsides. First, if the winner is charging to a spouses’ country, both selectees must meet the other eligibility criteria (education/work experience) and both must enter the USA together.
Secondly, some COs will not understand this type of elective cross charging. They may incorrectly refuse cases so someone using this method needs to have the 9 FAM rule printed out at the interview. I am providing that link here .
So be cautious with this approach. Only do it if you are sure you know what you are doing and are prepared to present the evidence to argue the case.
August 6, 2017 at 19:58
Hi Mr brit iam egptian and born in saudia arabia but i selected country of eligibility egypt my case noumber is AF , my wife born in sudan
Can i use elective cross chargeability???
August 6, 2017 at 21:02
You will have to. Your wife should go to the interview with education proof also, as she should be treated as a principal selectee.
August 9, 2017 at 20:59
Will the CO ask me about that or should i tell him ??
What should i tell him if he ask ??
August 9, 2017 at 21:20
2 general rules of immigration interviews.
1 Always tell the truth.
2. Only answer questions you are asked.
August 17, 2017 at 12:15
Hello Mr. BritSimon, don’t mean to annoy you or anything cause I’ve already asked you before on this matter, but anyway: I’ve put Uzbekistan instead of Russia as my country of chargeability thinking that my citizenship somehow plays a role. You told me I will probably be disqualified cause a CO will think that I’ve gained a benefit. I still don’t understand clearly what benefit it is, I also asked KCC on this matter 2 times but they told me everything will be decided by CO on my interview. So as I understand it this “benefit” thing connected with case numbers and cutoff for Uzbekistan. So if I am right and if my case number goes under the cutoff line I am good to go? My case number is 10### and after doing some research with previous years cutoffs for Uzbekistan where the worst one was around 13000 I realized that I don’t get in fact any benefit! Am I right? This is a good enough number right? My possible interview will probably be in January 2018 so please could you help me with your wisdom this one more time? Cause I feel like I am in a death row or smth waiting for an execution.
Thanks in advance.
August 17, 2017 at 12:26
I mean “I’ve put Russia instead of Uzbekistan”, sorry.
August 17, 2017 at 20:56
So – you don’t understand what benefit you got.
The lottery is supposed to give everyone in a region the same chance as everyone else. However, Uzbekistan is “limited” during the draw. To explain – let’s look at DV2015 statistics – available here – https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/immigrate/diversity-visa/diversity-visa-program-statistics.html
In that year, Russia had 133k entries (PLUS similar number of derivatives – 2 people per case). Romania had 36K entries (PLUS 36K derivatives). They got 4103 & 1068 winners (which includes derivatives. So – Russia had about 2050 winning cases, and Romania had about 534 winning cases. Take the winning cases divided by the entries – and you find the winning chance of each country. 1.54% for Russia and 1.48% for Romania. So – call that a 1.5% winning chance – that should be the same across the EU region.
Now – look at Uzbekistan in that same year. They had 834K entries plus derivatives of 533k. The derivative rate is lower at 1.56 people per case. They got 4368 selectees including family – so divide that by the derivative rate of 1.56, and we can see they received 2800 winning cases. So – 2800/834000 – the winning chance is only 0.33%. They were “limited” in the draw.
The draw process starts selecting EU1, then EU2 and so on – you can think of that as drawing numbers from a hat. Each time a case is selected they count the country winning cases. Because all entries are randomly ordered, if Uzbekistan has 20% of the entries – they would get 20 out of every 100 cases – right? So – when they got to 2800 cases for Uzbekistan, they put a limit on the country. The next winner from Uzbekistan was disqualified. No more winners from Uzbekistan were chosen past 2800 – but all the other countries (apart from Ukraine) continued. All the Uzbekistan cases were concentrated in the early number ranges.
I don’t know the exact numbers for DV2018 – but the principle is the same. So – now for your case. You were supposed to be in Uzbekistan. You would have been in the “limited” group, with therefore a lower chance of selection. Russia was not limited. If the CO understand that process as well as I do – the CO will know you gained an advantage/benefit from your country selection. You improved your chance of selection by about 5 times. Because of that – you risk disqualification.
August 18, 2017 at 09:09
Ok, got it, I’m screwed.
Thank you for your help Mr. BritSimon.
August 18, 2017 at 14:26
In your position I would gamble the fees by attending the interview, because not all COs will understand the benefit. This is particularly true if you were to interview in another country.
September 27, 2017 at 18:00
Hi mr.simon
My interview next Monday My Case No. AF and iam born in saudia arabia my wife born in sudan you told me it can be treated as elective cross chargeability please tell me any tips for interview and when i show the CO 9FAM rules??
September 27, 2017 at 18:06
Take the printed rules with you and make sure you raise the chargeability subject.
Make sure you take supporting documents such as education etc for BOTH of you.
September 27, 2017 at 18:11
Thank you very much for your advice and your support
October 6, 2017 at 15:01
Hi Mr. BritSimon,
I had browsed some sources in the internet, but I found a few different things from my knowledge, and I was a bit confused. Could you please help me?
Btw, I just would like to know about my case. I was born in Indonesia from Indonesian citizens father (Taiwanese descended), and I had the same citizenship with them. However now, I have denounced my Indo citizenship, and I am an Australian citizen.
I noted that both of the countries are qualifying countries for DV2018, or following.
Can I use my Australian citizenship in order to gain more chances to win the visa?
Especially from the previous statistics, that more Australians were picked as a winners than Indonesia.
I hope I still can be qualified for this DV Lottery visa.
Could you please advise me about this? I really appreciate your kindness if you are willing to advise me. Please accept my apology for any inconvenience.
October 6, 2017 at 15:13
No. Place of birth.
October 23, 2017 at 12:37
hi Mr BritSimon, am planning on registering using my wife as the main candidate because she was born in Benin, and i was born in Nigeria. she has only her a birth cert to prove that as her parents brought her in to Nigeria where she studied all through. do you think its worth trying?
October 23, 2017 at 13:14
As long as that is the truth and the birth cert is genuine – that is fine. She could register, and so could you. IN question 6 on YOUR application you pick chargeability to her country of birth.
November 8, 2017 at 16:32
Hello Mr Brit Simon. I am from Iran. I was born in Iran . My parents were born in Iran. We,re living together in Iran now.during registration of 2019 DV visa lottery about country of eligibility I clicked NO and chose Iran from the list. now I know that I should have clicked YES. would it be overlooked in the time of interview or I wouid be disqualifyed?
November 8, 2017 at 19:19
It should be OK.
November 9, 2017 at 16:45
Hello Mr. BritSimon. I was born in Kuwait. My parents were both born in Egypt. Both countries are eligible. We all currently live in Egypt. I’m single. Two questions:
1) Can I select Egypt instead of Kuwait?
2) Will choosing Egypt increase my chances?
November 9, 2017 at 17:50
1. No
2. No
November 14, 2017 at 04:25
Hello Mr.BritSimon. I born in Saudi Arabia and i selected Djibouti as my country of eligibility ,and i won the dv lottery for the year 2018 .And I’m single. So what shall I do??
November 14, 2017 at 06:09
Forget DV2018. Enter DV2019, and this time enter your place of birth as the country of chargeability.
November 14, 2017 at 16:01
Hi Britsimon,
my spouse is native of eligible country but she does not have eligible qualification . so she could not enter in DV Lottery but Can i enter DV lottery by taking chargeabillity of my spouse. please give your opinion. thanks.
November 15, 2017 at 17:45
IN that case (cross charging) BOTH of you have to meet the requirements.
November 16, 2017 at 00:45
Hi BritSimon,
As per rule of ( FAM 502.6-4 DIVERSITY VISA PROCESSING ) we come to understanding that principal applicant must have education qualification and valid chargeablity from spouse also spouse must be from native of eligible country . As we have inquire KCC about this they told that only principal applicant should need education qualification and they will treat both as principal applicant only for chargeablity not for education qualification . So we got confuse .
Can you please advise as this is very important to us.
Thanks,
Satish
November 16, 2017 at 05:55
Why don’t you simply read the article above that already answers your question????
November 15, 2017 at 01:39
So i have zero chance to get the visa
November 15, 2017 at 18:54
Correct.
November 15, 2017 at 01:40
And what about the cross chargeability can
I use it or what
November 15, 2017 at 18:55
Based on what??
November 15, 2017 at 17:49
Hi Mr. BritSimon. I was born in Saudi Arabia and my spouse was born in Sudan. Saudi Arabia is eligible country for the DV program but I claimed eligibility as Sudan. I don’t know if I made a mistake or I can continue if I have been selected.
thanks and regards
November 15, 2017 at 22:25
You could continue if selected. The article above explains all.
November 19, 2017 at 11:50
Both my wife and I were born in eligible countries. She was born in Morocco. I was born in France.
She used France as country of chargeability and was selected for DV2018.
Now our interview if in just a few days and we are worried about this as you can imagine.
I have two questions.
1/ Would you happen to know whether the odds of winning were better with France than Morocco for DV2018? I don’t know where to find that information, but if we can show the CO that we had no gain doing elective cross charging, then maybe it could help our case.
2/ Which specific section of the 9 FAM rule should I read to the CO in case he refuses our case? The 9FAM rule is quite long and I am afraid the CO will lose patience if I try to read the whole thing.
Thanks in advance!
November 19, 2017 at 13:01
Never mind question #2. I found the answer: 9 FAM 502.6-4.a.(2).(d)
November 20, 2017 at 01:32
1. EU had better chance – but that is not the point. Just be ready for BOTH of you to need to prove you meet education requirements.
November 20, 2017 at 05:49
Thanks Simon. Yes, we are ready to prove we both meet education requirements.
One more thing, if the CO does not bring up the cross chargeability topic at all, can our visa be denied if s/he only notices we cross charged after the interview is over (when we are no longer there to show him/her the 9 FAM rule) ?
November 20, 2017 at 15:22
Bring it up.
January 14, 2018 at 15:52
Dear Brit,
Hello once again. I’ve already written you couple times before about about the sh*tty situation in which I am and you’ve answered both times. I am a DV2018 winner, put Russia as my country of chargeability but was born in Uzbekistan. I am about to visit an interview next month in Moscow embassy and I am totally going there against all odds. I know you’ve said already that I will be 99.9% denied visa on the spot without any chances. But anyway I am going to take it like a man and try my luck if there is any slim chance at all. Isn’t what this lottery is all about – taking a chance?
So, have you actually heard of any case such as mine – where the winner was disqualified because of the wrong country but within the same region? To be honest – I have not.
What if I have a university degree, can speak English on the pretty good level, have no any criminal record, have a reasonable amount of money to live in the USA for a few months, I am still young healthy and overall well-rounded? Have I not deserve this visa just because I made one single stupid mistake? What would you do if you were a CO? Do you still think the chances are bad?
Hope you will provide an answer for the third and final time.
You are the only person who can help me with advice.
Thanks in advance.
January 14, 2018 at 16:38
I provided a detailed explanation before. I did NOT say your chance of disqualification was 99.9%. Most COs do NOT know the lottery process as well as I do. BUT I have known refusals within the same region as I described. So – as I said before – there is “some” risk.
https://britsimonsays.com/country-of-chargeability-for-dv-lottery/comment-page-2/#comment-81056
October 20, 2018 at 10:30
Could you please tell me about your interview!
Have you passed it!
January 15, 2018 at 03:49
Hi Brit,
One thing came to my mind reading this post. My wife is a MAIN applicant and we are from EU region (Tajikistan) I hold Tajikistan citizenship but my BIRTH PLACE is Afghanistan in my passport which is (ASIA) region. So according to birth place chargeabillity we are from two diferrent REGIONS. Would it cause me/us any problem??
Thanks
January 15, 2018 at 06:06
No – as long as she was born in EU region, it will be fine. YOU will be charged to her country of chargeability.
January 15, 2018 at 06:26
Thank You Brit, one more question:
After the release of the VB, do I see ”Ready” the same day or it will still show ”at NVC” till the 2NL comes? Obviously If we are current in that VB
January 15, 2018 at 06:44
It changes some weeks later.
January 15, 2018 at 07:04
Hello BritSimon. Why visa bulletin for march 2018 is too late?
January 15, 2018 at 14:52
It isn’t “too late”. Patience.
May 2, 2018 at 14:57
Hi again. Not sure how many times I’ve returned to your blog for guidance.
The example you used above with South Africa and Australia is my exact scenario. I was born in SA but I’m an Australian citizen. My husband was born in Aus. (But we live in the US, currently on work visa) At the time I entered I had no idea about chargeability. I just selected Aus because I’ve been an Aussie citizen for 10 years. Our case number is 2018OC8Xx. We won on my entry.
At our interview on April 24 they said there had been a few bumps but that they seem to have ironed out all the wrinkles. They explained to us about cross chargeability and that we could do that but needed to provide my husband’s educational qualifications. They kept our passports. We got my hubby’s university certificate to them the same day. Thdyvdays we could email it.
Our case is now under AP. I assume it’s because of the cross chargeability.
We emailed the consulate to ask if we might get an indication how long it would take (at that stage I hadn’t researched anything about AP. Now I read it could take 60 days or longer ?). We had our return flight to the US scheduled for tomorrow but don’t have our passports back yet so had to change them. But we only moved them to next Friday. It was before I knew what AP actually was. Our kids are out of school at the moment for which we needed to get permission and we have time off work so it’s a significant impact on us.
The consulate did reply and say they couldn’t give us an indication of how long it would take but that they do hope to have an outcome soon. They also said as soon as they hear anything further they will take immediate action on our case.
I’m not really sure what my question to you is. I guess it’s does their response sound positive? Who actually makes the final decision? Someone in Aus? The case officer? Someone in the US? Do you think there’s a chance they could reject our visas? Do you think processing could take as long as 60 days. Have you seen a case like this before?
Thanks so much for your time and insight!!
May 2, 2018 at 16:19
There are a couple of possibilities.
First, your AP has nothing to do with your stepson. There is nothing wrong with his scenario.
It is quite common to see a short period of AP after approval (which is to do with visa printing0. However, if the AP lasts more than a couple of days, then it is “real” AP. Hopefully yours is like that.
The cross charging would not require them to ask anyone in the USA. They clearly understood the rule and were correct to ask for your husbands education documents. I don’t think you ever mentioned the cross charging in any of your questions by the way. Now, timing was unfortunate. At the end of each month, the embassy have to “account for” the cases they were allocated that month by KCC. Each person on the case was pre-allocated a visa. At the end of the month the embassy have to return refused or AP visas. So – if they did not have the ability to give the approval before they reported to KCC, they will now have to ask KCC to re-allocate visas to your case (assuming they are ready to approve). That can take a couple of weeks.
If I were you, I would contact the embassy and try and push them to tell you more. Are you on real AP, do they need re-allocation of visas, and so on. Try and get a timeline (explaining your work and school commitments).
May 2, 2018 at 15:02
Perhaps we may be under Administrative Processing because my step son is on our application and came to the interview with us. He doesn’t live with us but visits us in the US frequently. He’s 15.
We have 4 other younger kids.
Or is it more likely because of cross chargeability? Or both?
May 2, 2018 at 21:42
Wow, always wow to your brilliant responses.
I didn’t know about cross chargeability until our appointment. I just assumed everything was fine with me as an Aussie citizen. I guess we’re just fortunate that my husband was born in Aus and that the embassy understood the rule etc.
Originally KCC shecduled our interview in SA because I was living in the US so it looked like I had no ties to Aus. I discovered this after calling them. They helped transfer our case to Aus. I still had no idea about chargeability.
They were really helpful even though they weren’t able to reschedule the appointment. They gave me the contact details for the consulate in AU and had called the embassy in both SA and AU to help them agree to transfer / accept our case.
So I’m wondering if I should call KCC and ask if they’re able to help expedite anything?
We have emailed the AU embassy a few times. In our last email explained how the kids were out of school and we were on extended leave from work (and need to be able to notify each of our return). It was at that point they responded with slightly more info than the previous emails. They acknowledged the frustration and impact on our personal lives and said they hoped to have an answer soon and would take immediate action on our case as soon as they knew anything further.
That’s what made me think it wasn’t quite in their hands. If they are waiting for an allocation of visas (which I can ask them specifically about in another follow up email) perhaps calling the KCC could help?
May 3, 2018 at 03:24
I answered by email.
May 6, 2018 at 06:56
Dear Sir,
Kindly I am born in Kuwait, but I put at the entry form the country of changeability is United Arab Emirates, is this will be disqualified at the time of the interview?
I read in the some post that you are saying I’ve to proof that I didn’t get any benefits from this, how Can I proof that?
May 6, 2018 at 14:53
They can allow the case to continue.
They decide whether you gained benefit or not.
May 16, 2018 at 01:33
Dear Sir,
I have been selected at DV, But i was born at kuwait and type city of born “Kuwait”, but country of born “Egypt”, also the country of chargeability Egypt, is this will be disqualified at interview for both country of birth or chargeability?.
Taking into consideration I have only Egyptian nationality and my parents was temporary at Kuwait during the time I was born.
Thanks in Advance
May 16, 2018 at 01:46
As you were born in Kuwait, you should have an AS number. Do you? If it is AF, you will be disqualified.
May 27, 2018 at 03:53
Hi Brit ,
i missed type my country of chargeability i was burn in Saudi Arabia but i have an afghan passport.so i typed my country of chargeability Afghanistan would i be disqualified(i know i should have been more carful)? my case number starts with 2019AS12xx.i have submitted my ds260 one week after being selected, i haven’t got the 2NL yet .would my interview be between October and December 2018 or it might take longer? By the way i will be doing the interview in Hungary as i am studying there.Thanks a lot for your help.
May 27, 2018 at 05:13
Sine both countries are in AS region, they don’t have to disqualify you. Yes pour interview could be late this year.
May 27, 2018 at 08:18
Hi, i am from sudan and born in Iraq, both sudan and Iraq are eligable for dv. So can I claim Sudan to be my country of eligibility instead of Iraq because Sudan is my parent’s country of birth
May 27, 2018 at 14:11
No
June 2, 2018 at 08:12
Hello, Brit!
I was born on Southern Sakhalin
Should I choose country of chargeability Russia or Japan?
Found it here https://fam.state.gov/fam/09FAM/09FAM050302.html
Persons born in the Habomai Islands, Shikotan, Kunashiri, Etorofu, and Southern Sakhalin are chargeable to the foreign state limitation for Japan.
How do you think?
June 2, 2018 at 12:51
The statement couldn’t be more clear!
June 2, 2018 at 13:07
I just confused there’s no statement in dv lottery instructions.
June 2, 2018 at 13:31
You gave me the link to the official source and pasted the answer. What is confusing?????
June 23, 2018 at 12:25
Hi Mr Brit!
Based on your experience, what chances I have to get a visa if I made a mistake in country of birth?
I indicated a correct country of chargeability(means there’ s no influence at results of lottery), but country of birth is not correct.
Still I have chances?
June 23, 2018 at 15:06
Explain what are the countries (i.e. where were you born, what is the country of chargeability – and whether you have reason to charge to a different country.
June 23, 2018 at 15:31
My country of birth – Russia, but foreign state of chargeability is Japan, because I was born at Southern Sakhalin https://fam.state.gov/fam/09FAM/09FAM050302.html
(*Persons born in the Habomai Islands, Shikotan, Kunashiri, Etorofu, and Southern Sakhalin are chargeable to the foreign state limitation for Japan)
I made a mistake and indicated in DV entry – Country of birth is Japan and foreign state of chargeability is Japan.
What am i supposed to wait at interview? Have you ever met a similar case?
June 23, 2018 at 18:57
OK I see. It should be OK. Obviously I have not seen cases from Sakhalin before – but I have seen similar locations. Chargeability is what matters. Your explanation (with birth cert) will be the explanation.
June 23, 2018 at 19:18
Thank you for your support, in 10 days interview-I will tell you how it will go
July 3, 2018 at 12:47
Hello, Mr Brit!
It’s Lera from previous message.
Today was an interview and consul refused us because she doesn’t know this case of chargeability.
She couldn’t find this link and we were not able to show her.
We got a refuse according to 221(g) of Immigration and Nationality Act(rejection sheet).
Is there any way to fix it? Is there any additional documents except FAM which can approve our chargeability as Japan.
July 3, 2018 at 14:28
221(g) is a temporary refusal. Provide the link to them by email.
July 9, 2018 at 06:46
We got a refuse with:
1) Country of birth – Japan
2) Foreign state of chargeability – Japan
That’s what we got via email after interview:
Thank you for sending the information. According to the lawyers at the Department of State, the mistake in the information on the FAM website is noted and they are working on correcting the error. Unfortunately, since you applied for the diversity visa with the incorrect country of birth listed, you are disqualified. You are welcome to enter the lottery again in the future.
Refusal worksheet – Section 212(а)(5) – which prohibits the issuance of a visa to anyone who has not met the requirements of the diversity visa
How do you think – is there any way to dispute this decision of consul?
Thank you.
July 9, 2018 at 14:13
WOW – so they are admitting it is their mistake, but refusing you anyway. I’m pretty sure they understand how unfair that is – so if this was something they could “ignore” they probably would have done so. You can respond to their email – but I am doubtful you will get any change in the decision.
July 12, 2018 at 16:03
Lera, you were supposed to mention Russia as country of birth and Japan as country of chargeability. But you mentioned Japan as country of birth instead.
July 12, 2018 at 16:38
Yes, that is what they are refusing on – but it is a harsh application of the rule based on their mistake in the published information.
The 9 FAM notes mention that errors in country of *chargeability* will be disqualifying. It is chargeability that determines the region that the person is attached to (thus setting the chance of selection percentage). So – an error in the country of birth is almost on the same level as selecting the wrong birthdate. They can use that (COB) as reason for refusal, but they are not obliged to, in my understanding. So – in this case I would have expected them to be more lenient, but it’s possible they had no choice.
The 9 FAM notes:
(3) Errors in Choice of Country of Chargeability: If the entrant chooses the wrong country of chargeability at the time of the initial entry, the error will generally be disqualifying. However, if a DV applicant chooses a country of chargeability on the DV entry form that is within the same geographic region (one of the six) as the correct country of chargeability, and you determine that the applicant gained no benefit from his or her error, and there are no fraud concerns, you may continue processing the application using the correct country of chargeability in IVO. Post may need to obtain additional DV number(s) for the correct country of chargeability from the Immigrant Visa Control and Reporting Division (CA/VO/DO/I), as necessary, via a VISAS FROG message (see 9 FAM 604.2-1).
July 12, 2018 at 17:30
Any error in factual information could be disqualifying. https://britsimonsays.com/faq/made-xxx-mistake-original-entry-will-disqualified/
Error in the country of chargeability is generally not a factual error because you might not know the law. That is why it is a special section in 9 FAM. But error in a country of birth is a factual one. Lera was denied not because of wrong country of chargeability but because of wrong country of birth
July 12, 2018 at 18:26
Yes I know. “Could” be is the point. For illustration of my point. A date of birth error “could” be disqualifying, but generally isn’t (unless there are multiple mistakes, concerns about fraud and so on). Similarly people who have claimed to be married when in fact they are technically single have been approved, whilst claiming to be single whilst being found to be married is ALWAYS disqualifying. Those are factual errors too.
In other words, some factual errors WILL mean disqualification, whilst some “could” mean disqualification. The 9 FAM notes make clear which errors must cause disqualification. Country of birth is “forgiveable”, Country of chargeability generally isn’t (with the same region/no advantage caveats). Lera was denied on a factual error, but in reality because the region was wrong. That was harsh because Lera followed published guidance which the embassy notes will need correcting. To be frank – their response was a cop out. It would have been more honest to admit the guidance caused an unforgivable error in the region.
July 12, 2018 at 18:34
The quote from email correspondence Lera provided above states the reason for denial – incorrect country of birth listed. That is not my guess, that is what Lera posted on your website. Not incorrect country of chargeability.
July 12, 2018 at 18:37
Yes, I had read it. I think I have explained fully. You are free to believe whatever you like.
September 25, 2018 at 12:24
Visas for this case have been obtained on 9/19/2018, the case was on AP for 2.5 months.
September 25, 2018 at 20:33
Is this the Sakhalin case? I would be happy to hear that and it would seem correct. How do you know that James?
July 1, 2018 at 01:35
Hi Brit, i was born the year when theres no data base for educational certificate in my country, so how will the consular confirm that my cert is authentic and genuine
July 1, 2018 at 05:22
I don’t know.
July 17, 2018 at 20:10
Hi Simon, I was selected for further processing in the DV program. I claimed Syria as country of chargeability because I’m a Syrian citizen; however, I was born in Saudi Arabia. Can this disqualify my application ?
July 17, 2018 at 20:20
Well that can cause disqualification, but errors in the choice of country can be “forgiven” by the CO if the two countries concerned are within the same region (as they are in your case). So based on that you would have a chance.
However, you have a larger problem. The travel ban will apply to you as a Syrian unless you have some other citizenship.
July 17, 2018 at 21:27
Both of my parents are Syrian citizens and were living temporarily in Saudi Arabi which’s why I selected Syria. Do you still think that I should’ve selected Saudi Arabia? If yes, is there anyway to correct it?
July 17, 2018 at 23:06
Yes you should have selected SA – the instructions are VERY clear about that. No you cannot correct what you originally entered, and based on what you entered you made yourself part of the travel ban – which is much harder to overcome. If the fees are not a big amount of money, and you want to take the risk, you can do that – but I would say your chance of approval is low.
July 17, 2018 at 20:34
Hi sir i was born in pakistan and my hasband and kids born in qatar some years i apply from qatar but not won next year2020 can we apply both countries ?
July 17, 2018 at 22:50
You can each apply one time per year. You should list you country of birth as Pakistan, but charge to Qatar based on your husbands’ place of birth.
July 18, 2018 at 01:28
Thanks for your reply
July 20, 2018 at 12:59
Hi Britsimon,
My husband And I are both indian citizens and he(h1b) is thinking if he can use my place of birth(Iran) for cross cross chargeability. So my question is, Does the current travel ban impact people who are not nationals from those countries and still be affected if they apply through cross chargeability ?
July 20, 2018 at 13:30
I don’t know, but if you are both in the USA already then the ban won’t apply to you anyway.
July 21, 2018 at 17:13
Thanks for you reply. One last question , my husband is applying for employment based green card process (EB2) with my place of birth(Iran). Since Iran is now under banned countries will that affect the GC process in anyway ?
July 21, 2018 at 21:17
I answered that.
March 4, 2019 at 18:56
Hi Satya,
my husband and I are in the same exact situation. Did the cross charge-ability work for you?
August 13, 2018 at 22:59
Hi simon ,hope ur fiine
Iam a 2019 Dv winner CN 2019AF000395XX
# iwas born in Saudi Arabia.
# I am Sudanese and I used ( SUDAN )as MY COUNTRY OF CHARGABILITY by ( mistake ).
# In the registration I used ( SINGLE ) .
I already submitted ds260 file a week ago.
I got engaged yesterday & I will marry after 1 month with a SUDANESE girl .
My questions:-
1- can marriage correct my situation and enhance my chances to get a visa?
2- Is there any thing that I can do to argue to get a chance?
2- if you were in my situation would you gamble with getting an interview?
Thanks again for your efforts for helping people.☺☺
August 14, 2018 at 04:15
1. No
2. No
3. No. Denial is certain.
September 26, 2018 at 00:21
Yes, Sakhalin one. It is described in this video in Russian. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjCKooavNdg&t=24s
September 26, 2018 at 02:13
OK – I’ll have to take your word for it!
October 3, 2018 at 02:52
Hello! Thanks for the information. I have some questions regarding separate entries for both my wife and I.
I’m Mexican and my wife is Japanese, both with college degrees, so we fulfill the education requirement. I understand that if I want to submit an application as the principal applicant, I can claim chargeability to Japan as per my wife’s country of birth. In this case, I would be the principal applicant, and then my wife will be listed as derivative (but to be granted visa she will be treated as a principal applicant since I’m claiming her country of birth)
The question is, can my wife submit a separate entry where she will be the principal applicant, and I will be the derivative spouse? Or does this constitute grounds for disqualification?
I appreciate your time, thank you so much.
October 3, 2018 at 03:41
That is fine (not a duplicate entry).
October 3, 2018 at 07:58
hello BritSimon,
im sudanese and live from sudan now but im born in saudi arabia
which select for dv 2020 ???
October 3, 2018 at 15:25
https://britsimonsays.com/dv2020-registration-period-begins/
October 16, 2018 at 10:04
What if one of my children (6 year old) was born in an ineligible country? Would that undermine my chances of getting a green card or result in my disqualification? (As a principle applicant I was born in an eligible country.)
October 16, 2018 at 13:37
No problem.
October 17, 2018 at 00:43
Hello Simon,
I was born in Saudi Arabia, which is an eligible country. One of my parents was born in Mauritius – which is also an eligible country.
Can I select my changeability to Mauritius, or it HAS to be Saudi Arabia?
October 17, 2018 at 02:48
SA.
October 17, 2018 at 18:09
Thanks Simon
January 23, 2019 at 13:00
Hello Mr. Brit.
I was born in the UK. My parents were there to work as diplomats and returned to Ghana. I have been there since.
So my country of Birth is UK(England) but Country of Changeability is Ghana. I do not have citizenship in UK since laws changed in the 1980’s.
I have a letter from UK stating that i do not have access to their citizenship
1.Do i stand any disqualification chances?.
2. Advice me on
January 23, 2019 at 14:40
1. There is always a chance of disqualification, but from what you say you probably qualify for the missionary exception. You need to take proof of the reason for the temporary stay in the UK.
January 23, 2019 at 16:05
okay. They were posted there as they worked at the Government of Ghana’s Ministry of Foreign affairs so it was a temporal stay.think i may need a letter from his work place
Thanks. If thereis any other thing Mr. Brit kindly let me know as soon as possible. Thanks
January 23, 2019 at 19:19
Are you a DV2019 selectee?
January 28, 2019 at 19:51
Yes i am , do you have any additional information for me
January 29, 2019 at 00:23
No.
March 11, 2019 at 01:33
Hello Britsimon, I’m an avid reader of your blog, and I would like to ask for some clarification. I have applied for the DV lottery 2020 and I have recently gotten married my spouse is from an illegible country and she has not submitted a DV lottery entry. Can she still be added to my application afterwards whilst also being able to be chargeable to my country? Thank you for your time!
March 11, 2019 at 03:38
If you win, yes.
May 9, 2019 at 00:47
Dear Brit,
My wife is the winner of DV2020. She is from Russia but when saw the country of eligibility was selected as Rwanda instead of Russia. We had no idea wrong country was chosen until now… It is like a typo hence Rwanda was listed after Russia in the list however these countries are from different regions. Is there any chance to get interview for this case ? and if any chance given for interview, could we explain it to CO there was no intention of gaining advantage. It was only a human error ?
May 9, 2019 at 01:15
You would get an interview but you would be 100% certain to be refused (unless your country of birth is in Africa). You have been drawn from the Africa region, which is a separate lottery from the EU region. There is absolutely no way to fix that, and no way to be approved with the error. I’m sorry to deliver the bad news – but I am certain of what I am saying.
May 9, 2019 at 15:53
Dear Sir,
Thank you for your website and your precious help.
I’ve just been selected for the DV2020. I was so happy when I realised I made a mistake with the country of chargeability. I have a dual citizenship from France and Switzerland.
I was born in France and still live in France but I only have a Swiss passport.
I thought in the registration that the country of chargeability was typically made for people with dual citizenships as there was something for the birth country as well. But I was wrong.
Now I ‘m getting very nervous.
What do you think I should do?
Am I disqualified? (I hope not as France and Switzerland are within the same region / I don’t even know if I obtained any advantage!)
Do I have to change this now in my DS 260 form and change everything to France or wait for the embassy and explaining I did this because of my dual citizenship?
Finally, which embassy do I have to chose? The one in france where I live or the one in Switzerland?!
Thank you for your help!
John
May 9, 2019 at 19:47
No problem when you make a mistake within one region (as you have).
Embassy is based on where you live.
May 15, 2019 at 13:26
hi can you provide the link for the mistake from the same region
it shows unavailable
is it possible to be changed?
May 15, 2019 at 17:27
The link works.
May 16, 2019 at 11:43
Hello Britsimon,
First of all I’d like to say thanks for your amazing and very helpful blog. It helps me a lot.
I’ve been won a green card 2020 lottery from EU region. I’m Ukraine citizen but living and have residence in Poland. When I’ve checked mine DS-260 there’s an info that ‘Foreign state of chargeability’ is Poland. I did not remember that I put Poland like a country from which I’m applying in lottery. It might be a technical mistake or my fault because I just didn’t put enough attention on that. But anyway, question is: will I be disqualified or I have a chance on interview with a Consul to explain situation and get a visa.
Thanks.
May 16, 2019 at 16:50
You made the mistake, that is certain. The rules state that this sort of mistake can be forgiven if the two countries are within the same region AND the selectee received no advantage by the error. However, you probably did receive an advantage. Ukraine selectees are usually limited in the draw because there are so many entries from the Ukraine. Basically that means the chance of selection from Ukraine is lower. It’s a technical point, and not all COs will understand the point I am describing. So, there is some risk of denial, which would be justified. But some COs might not understand the rule or the limitation on Ukraine. If I had to guess I would say you are more likely to be disqualified than not.
June 7, 2019 at 14:35
Thank you for your answer.
I was thinking about “selectee received no advantage by the error” did I or did not. Doesn’t the advantage depend of a case number? E.g. my CN is ~30,000 and based on a forum’s info the max CN from my original country (Ukraine) is 54,000. Doesn’t that mean that even if I played from Ukraine I’d be selected because I’m in that range ?
June 7, 2019 at 15:10
Well, again, there is no guarantee a CO will understand that limitation as well as I have described, in fact that is highly unlikely. They may just know that people from Ukraine try and use other countries to improve their chances. Arguing that it didn’t technically improve your chance is kind of pointless, you deliberately, or by mistake, completed the wrong country, so there is risk.
By the way, in any normal year you would have seen Ukraine cutoff below 20k, so yes, you probably DID get an advantage.
May 17, 2019 at 18:13
Hello Britsimon,
I have a question about The foreign state of chargeability .. I was born in Kuwait and I’m living in Iran and nationality is Iranian .. my mum and dad are Iranian too .. I won 2020 lottery and I sent DS-260 and got confirmation Number ..
but in my winning letter they wrote ‘Kuwait’ as my foreign state of chargeability
and in my confirmation letter they wrote Country/Region of Origin (Nationality): Iran ..
so my questions are these :
1 – I will be in Kuwaitian volunteer List or Iranian volunteer List of Winners ?
2- In interview they will know me as an Iranian or Kuwaitian applicant?
3- I wanted to know I will be included under Trump Ban cuz my nationality is “Iran” ? or Trump Bann based on “foreign state of chargeability” that mine is ” Kuwait “?
thank you for help
regards
May 17, 2019 at 20:45
1. There is no such thing. Just Asia.
2. I don’t know.
3. You could be affected by the ban.
June 2, 2019 at 06:28
Hi Simon,
first of all thanks for your great awesome website..
just one little question: this 9 FAM 502.6 document is legitimate and indeed can be used during the interview? Since there are no any mention of this in official guide, I presume there maybe some risk to use it or not at all??… kindly thank you
June 2, 2019 at 14:36
It is the processing guide for COs to follow. It is an official document, and publicly available. So there is no problem using it, or politely referring COs to it.
June 7, 2019 at 13:01
Hello BritSimon,
I dont see the chapter regarding “errors in the choice of chargeability”in the 9 FAM 502.6 document.
Any idea where it is now?!
Thanks for your help 🙂
John
June 7, 2019 at 15:01
Nothing moved. I did not say there was a section titled “errors in the choice of chargeability”. There is a description of chargeability, including the clarified example.
June 28, 2019 at 02:49
Hello BritSimon,..
I submitted ds260 for 2020 and i haven’t received an e-mail confirmation by KCC ?!? i saw some people they received confirmation email in their e-mail by KCC .. i only have my confirmation page in PDF that i made it’s PDF by myself after finishing and submitting the DS-260, but never received any confirmation e-mail in my personal email that i wrote in DS-260 .. i wanted to know what i do ? i would send them email to ask ? or its not important ?!
thank you for help
June 28, 2019 at 04:28
Not important.
September 4, 2019 at 11:24
Hi Simon,
I read a couple of your posts and have a question. You seem to be one of the rare people stating that a “mistake” in choosing the country of chargeability in DV lottery within ONE region could be “overlooked” at the interview. Have you ever “seen” such examples before? Bc in my case this “overlooking” could mean a lucky ticket to the US. Short explanation – I was born in Russia and the number of people entering DV lottery from there is enormous, my chances are pretty poor, my bad 🙁 BUT I live in Austria (same region – Europe) since many years, I am an Austrian citizen, I was married to an Austrian citizen for many years (but divorced now), my 6 yo son is an Austrian citizen. Apparently my chances being selected in the lottery from Austria are significantly higher. So now my question – may I “make this mistake” in choosing country of chargeability from the same region? I have no idea what exceptions there could possibly be in such cases at all. Is there any chance to argue the case should I really be selected from Austria (to your opinion)? Maybe couple of facts more – my family (mother, sister and brother) fled from Russia as political refugees (being threatened and chased), so my “nativity” with this country is extremely arguable. And I have no evidence about the country of birth of my father (actually no information at all).
Thank you very much in advance for your reply!
Sincerely,
Tanya
September 4, 2019 at 21:03
I am shocked that I am one of the few people saying this. It’s not a secret and it is explicitly stated in the guidelines for COs. I have seen a number of cases like this – and in fact I have never seen a case that was refused on this where it should not have been refused. In other words I am 100% certain of what I say and the official guidelines support my position.
Having said that – your first assumption (that Austrians have better chance of selection than Russians) is incorrect. The chance of selection between those countries is identical. So – go with the simple route. Enter birth country and be done with it. Entering as Austrian doesn’t improve your chances in any way.
September 6, 2019 at 07:51
Hello Simon,
Thank you very much for your reply! I guess you are right, my mistake I thought Austria would have more chances, anyway. I will continue trying my luck with Russia.
Have a good one
BR
Tanya
September 10, 2019 at 04:23
Hi Brit.
Am applicant who won DV 2019 and case number 2019AF15xxx, I was born in Saudi Arabia and have Eritrean citizen. I put my foreign state of chargeability as Eritrea. Both my parents were born in Eritrea, have both Eritrean citizen and my mother is living in Eritrea and father is stiĺl in Saudi Arabia to earn a living. Is that a mistake by putting my foreign state of chargeability as Eritrea, I was refused for not putting it as Saudi Arabia.
Sincerely,
Petros
September 10, 2019 at 17:58
You should have selected Saudi Arabia. Not doing so meant you were selected in the wrong region, and (unless you were married to a person born in Eritrea) the embassy had no choice but to reject you. That was absolutely predictable.
September 30, 2019 at 07:20
hi am living in Kenya with my wife and am from Nigeria using Nigeria passport can my wife apply for DV 2021 lottery she is using Kenya passport thanks
September 30, 2019 at 13:49
If you were born in Nigeria you are not eligible.
October 22, 2019 at 21:44
Hello Brit
Beautiful thing what your doing.
I think I have the same issue as Petros
I was born in Saudi Arabia but my case starts with the region letters AF****.
I can’t remember weather I chose Saudi Arabia or Sudan as my country of eligibility.
But it’s clear from the case number the region is different from place of birth.
My interview will be set on December.
Please let me know if should keep going with it or stop before going to the interview in the first place.
Thank you.
October 23, 2019 at 00:19
You obviously selected Sudan. If you have no legitimate reason to be charged to Sudan (i.e. the ONLY way would be being married to someone from Sudan), then you are certain to be disqualified. There is no doubt.
July 24, 2020 at 20:30
Hi mister
Can you tell us what’s happend to you with this mistake
Plz
October 8, 2019 at 22:02
Hi, Simon, I was born in Kenya.lived in Kenya for a very short period.
My birth certificate says though born in Kenya does not mean am Kenyan
I do have a Ugandan passport,n all my documents acknowledge am Ugandan,
If I charge to Uganda ,will it be okay
October 8, 2019 at 22:30
We left for Uganda with my parents while I was about 2 years or less by some months
October 9, 2019 at 03:48
No, you enter as born in Kenya, with a Ugandan passport.
October 9, 2019 at 04:55
Thank you so much
November 1, 2019 at 01:32
Hello, Simon! Found the answer to my question on your blog. Sorry for wasting your time. Regards.